Help about upgrade a ddr extreme

This is your problem.

I said you were talking nonsense, not that what you said was stupid. There is a difference.

Megamix and Extreme+ are rather mild bootlegs - quite superficial hacks in total(even the "speeding up the song" trick isn't very complex) - you are right that this is neither here nor there. You are suggesting something more fundamentally different, and the burden of proof is on you. You've made a claim that you now need to substantiate. You are suggesting things to people based on what you've been "told" not what you've "tried" - I, on the otherhand, am talking about what I have done with my own two hands on an actual machine.

The "proof" of my claims lies in the file structure of the CD, and the wiring of the GX700 motherboard with analogue and digital I/O boards as observed with my own eyes (the analogue boards have a audio-out lead from the CD-Rom drive plugging into the analogue I/O board, the digital ones do not, just the IDE cable and a 4-pin power cable).

Look at the contents of the disks for 1st or 2ndMIX or any other analogue-based mix (you can find them on MAME, even). You have a PSX.EXE file (which boots the game), and a 16MB .DAT file - which flashes the memory chips. There is no file that uses a memory card - understandable, since the machines didn't come with one. These mixes also came with a small sized security cassette. The bulk of the CD is red book audio, with only about 20MB of actual data.

Now look at the contents of the disks for 3rdMIX->Extreme (they only came with one disk and the security cassette by the way - unlike earlier mixes that often had two security cassettes, one to install, one to play). They contain a PSX.EXE file (which boots the game), a GAME.DAT file (16MB - this flashes the memory chips) and a CARD.DAT (either 16MB or 32MB - this is for flashing to the memory card, and for the record this file is 32MB on 4thMIX plus) and up to two other directories (DAT and sometimes MOV). These came with the larger T-shaped security cassette. There is NO red book audio, and the entire of the CD is data (hence why the images are often much smaller - 3rdMIX was 144MB).

Next, try swapping an analogue I/O board into a 3rdMIX setup and note the error message you get when it boots (and fails to find the I/O board). You get this to work (or get someone to successflly install 4thMIX or 3rdMIX onto a System 573 Analogue board and see it for yourself), I'll happily admit I was wrong and eat humble pie - and ask you how you did it.

Finally, I can bootleg all of 3rdMIX-EXTREME (and EuroMIX 2) just by altering the PSX.EXE file with a modified version (this is where all the pre-game checks take place, it also includes detecting whether or not the stage is correctly detected) - if there was some difference in the code between 5thMIX and 4thMIX that somehow magically detected if you still had an analogue I/O connected and radically changed the game engine, surely changing the boot executable would break this? It certainly breaks it for Dancing Stage EuroMIX (which uses almost entirely the same hardware, except for no 32MB memory card, and an old-style security cassette).


More proof that you don't know what you are talking about. Show me you playing it, please (gameplay, not song selection), it's not playable as of version 0.133 - I've just re-checked this minute to be sure of my information. I was the one who SOLD smf (the MAME developer who added the System 573 games to MAME) a Digital I/O board at cost in order to try and get these working as recently as January. Why would I have done this if it was already working?

For the record, GuitarFreaks 3rdMIX and above (until V) and Drummania (until V) also use the digital 573 hardware also, and are also not fully emulated (no music for GuitarFreaks, Drummania totally unplayable - for the same reason as DDR 3rdMIX and above - the audio is decoded by the Digital I/O board which is not yet emulated, whereas the Analogue I/O board is and can't handle it).

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Thanks for all the responses. Sorry if this turn to a debate ^^'

I learn a lot of things, but i'm not sure of some things (i'm not native english and that hardware thing is not so simple).
You can downgrade an Extreme to... 5mix (or more) ? Not 4 or less ? (due to hardware issues).

Sorry about asking this again, and thanks again.

PS : I will go to the location where the Extreme is broken today. We will try to "re-initialise flash card" after i explain thid to the owner.
@Stsung: I will add your msn adress tonight (and will ask some question if we failed at "re-initialise flash card" ^^'

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Okay, just to sum things up:

The DIFFERENCE between digital and analogue I/O boards is that the digital ones have the MP3 chip (and a whole host of other chips surrounding it , presumably for decryption?)

1st and 2rd Mix will install and run on Analogue hardware because of the standard CD audio,
Everything between and including 3rd and Extreme (and EM2) run on exactly the SAME hardware as each other without any modification (Digital board plus flash card).

And to answer your question you can put 3rd Mix on an Extreme cab, likewise, you can install the other way round.
That is, unless you have a bootleg modchip which only lets you install a specific mix (Legit installs always keep the boot ROM (chip number KONAMI 700A01 iirc)

SN and SN2 both share the use of completely different hardware from Extreme and earlier, so all that needs to be done is to swap out the 573 board with the Python2 board and oh look you can run SN..

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I'm +1ing you because you managed to say what Chi said without being an ass about it.

I'm an ass only when people spam up threads asking for technical advice with hearsay and then get pissy when they get called up on it. I see Ian has summarised the differences already whilst I was writing this, but for the record I'll post it anyway.


No, AeronPeryton was confusing issues (he clearly doesn't take the internet "surrius" enough). There's only one version of DDR which comes in both an Analogue and Digital hardware version (note: these aren't the same - you'd need the correct game media for the respective hardware - one's a 38MB CD and the other is more like 250MB) and that's the slightly obscure Dancing stage feat. Dreams Come True (which was only available as an upgrade kit - no dedicated cabs were made).

A note in advance: You are highly (unthinkably) unlikely to find legitimate upgrade kits for pre-EXTREME mixes nowadays, as once used, they cannot be used on another machine (and these were not made in large numbers). If you want to have legitimate versions (and not bootlegged ones), the best bet is to track down a System 573 with the mix already installed (and avoid the bootlegs, of which there are many). However, it is worth noting that there is no difference in game between a legitimate version and "good" bootlegs ("bad" bootlegs are another matter - there are 5thMIX bootlegs around that crash randomly in places, and can't be unlocked for instance).

You can run 3rdMIX (which includes 2ndMIX mode - and thus everything on the original DDR), 4thMIX, 5thMIX, MAX, MAX 2, Extreme and EuroMIX 2 on the same hardware. For the bootlegging route, once you have a System 573 digital board, you simply flash them with a CD (no modification of the board is needed - the CD images to do this are floating around on A Certain Website(tm)). For a legitimate upgrade (should you find a kit), you would also need the blank security cassette (which gets written to during install).

In principle EuroMIX and DDR USA also use the same hardware, but bootlegs of these do not (yet) exist. Solo Bass and 2000 use very similar hardware (they don't use an I/O board at all, apparently - I can't confirm this personally), so perhaps one day bootlegs of these may appear.

Summary of hardware generations:
1) Bemani System 573 Analogue (GX700 + Analogue I/O): Dancing Stage, DanceDanceRevolution, DanceDanceRevolution 2ndMIX (and variations of 2ndMIX), Dancing Stage feat. Dreams Come True (Analogue), Dancing Stage feat. True Kiss Destination

2a) Bemani System 573 Solo (GX700, apparently no I/O board) with no flash card: DanceDanceRevolution Solo Bass, DanceDanceRevolution Solo 2000

2b) Bemani System 573 Solo (GX700, apparently no I/O board) with 32MB flash card: DanceDanceRevolution Solo 4thMIX, DanceDanceRevolution Solo 4thMIX PLUS

3a) Bemani System 573 Digital (GX700 + Digital I/O) with no flash card: , Dancing Stage EuroMIX, DanceDanceRevolution USA, Dancing Stage feat. Dreams Come True (Digital)

3b) Bemani System 573 Digital (GX700 + Digital I/O) with 16MB flash card: Dancing Stage Disney's Rave (can upgrade to any mixes from category 3a as well)

3c) Bemani System 573 Digital (GX700 + Digital I/O) with 32MB flash card: DanceDanceRevolution 3rdMIX, DanceDanceRevolution 3rdMIX PLUS, DanceDanceRevolution 4thMIX, DanceDanceRevolution 4thMIX PLUS, DanceDanceRevolution 5thMIX, DDRMAX ~DanceDanceRevolution 6thMIX~, DDRMAX 2 ~DanceDanceRevolution 7thMIX~, DanceDanceRevolution EXTREME, Dancing Stage EuroMIX 2 (can upgrade to any mixes from category 3a and 3b as well)

4a) Fusion Hardware (precursor to Python 2): Dancing Stage Fusion

4b) Python 2: Dancing Stage/DanceDanceRevolution SuperNOVA, DanceDanceRevolution SuperNOVA 2

5) BemaniPC: DanceDanceRevolution X


That's not true, sadly (I wish it were). You also need:

a) The Extended I/O board
b) a 100V power supply (and a +5V feed) for the Python 2 board
c) a +12V for the Extended I/O board and;
d) a bunch of cable adapters to plug in the lights and stage I/O into the Extended I/O box.

You'd also need to hardwire in 4 wires to the JAMMA loom which connect into the Extended I/O box.

This I know from experience ^^;

(Either that or get an Extreme -> SuperNOVA upgrade kit which contains a new JAMMA loom and all the associated bits, but I'm sure they aren't cheap)


And if you are unfortunate enough to have a single mix bootleg EPROM, you can just get a new boot rom and all will be well - JU707 on eBay sells them for a reasonably small amount ($15ish, plus shipping from the US).

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Oh yeah I forgot about the lack of a certain I/O board which Electrocoin would charge through the nose for

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£758.03 (and a further £454.25 for the cabling - sod that). I'm still looking for one!

All for this:


The cabling is a PITA as well - the plugs and sockets used are not easy to source as an end user (they are all JST quick disconnects, but seem to only be sold in packs of hundreds whenever I've looked for them!)

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You can admit to it... that's promising. But I wasn't spamming anyone or being "pissy". I'm so sorry that I don't know everything you do. I told you what I believed to be true and why, I had never heard anyone say otherwise. And I was hoping you would explain to me why you said what you said so that if I was wrong, which I was, I'd know better. Assuming that the person you're talking to is purposefully lying is a childish way to behave.

Water, bridges, etc., Mercury did the job for you.

I like how both your last 2 posts have contributed nothing to this thread. I'll follow your example by adding an equally contentless post that sums up our interaction.



Who said you were lying?

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Last "bump".

Just for explain that the problem was definitively the flash card.
The owner have two ddr extreme, after see some of your post, he put the flash card of the broken extreme to the other one and vice-versa.

What hapend ? Both arcades work perfectly fine (except when this freeze but it's an other and old problem). He change again both flash card (beetween cabs) and this still work.

So that's cool. Also, he try to get SN2. This will be awesome (except the fact that the local is small, and in my opinion, there will be too much cabs near to each other...).

Thanks all for the help and advices.
Kiss from France

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