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Sega Saturn |OT| Appreciation and Emulation Thread
- Thread starter Deleted member 3010
- Start date
- OT
I'm resolving to play that this year. I bought it so long ago and never got to play it for various reasons.
Strange considering I was so hyped about it reading in magazines.
Strange considering I was so hyped about it reading in magazines.
Maybe I'll finally go back to my one and only playthrough of the game and finally finish it this time. I quit half way through last time.
I seem to remember being frustrated with generals defecting.
I seem to remember being frustrated with generals defecting.
when you are doing your domestics get one of your generals if they can to search the castle grounds. There is an item called Faith Coin which can be found randomly at any castle ground. Equip this on the defectors as it makes them loyal.
Dragon Force is about the last big Saturn game on my backlog right now...i swear, i just feel like i'm playing it wrong whenever i start up. meant to have cj_iwakura put on one of his tutorials when he was here.
All right, it's been years, but I still recall most of the basics for Dragon Force:
1) don't start with Mikhail or Leon. Wein is probably the best starter character
2) learn the soldier units weaknesses and strengths, sort of like you are playing Fire Emblem (e.g. read the manual for a complete chart)
3) never attack a castle without a full party
4) when the enemy comes charging with the most offensive formation, just sit tight with your guys, use some power like the upgraded sonic booms to thin their numbers, and let the remaining come
5) certain castles have one single item, the best one is at Crystal near Palemon: dragon crest, which gives you dragon units strong against nearly everything, with samurai being their only weakness
6) don't sit around too comfortably without expanding but don't expand too fast either, at some point you'll be attacked by a bunch of loser rogues but
which are very strong
7) don't bother with Bastion, the guy will constantly switch loyalties if there's a girl in the enemy team, which is hilarious at first, but you know
8) when invited to come alone into a tower by
be sure to have anti-zombie units like monks
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9) don't bother with generals which have a generic face (i.e. repeating face), they are never worth bothering training up
10) if there are enemy generals coming on the road, just retreat back to the closest castle for extra defense; you'll be at a disadvantage a lot of times fighting on the middle of the road.
11) after you are finished, time to start up again with another main character; the initial story arcs are completely different based on your choice of main character and even the minor plots (quite a few of those per character) and different twists should keep you interested in playing another path. It's that Fire Emblem Fates thing but done much better
12) oh, if there's a unit type you should never bother with it's elf archers, they are really very frail and kill basically nothing. On the other hand, mages can be pretty powerful if you can micromanage them into the right spots, like surrounding the leader, which can be fairly hard if you don't know what you're doing
13) search or fortify a castle? Probably the former in the initial stages and the latter from the mid point onwards. If I recall right, generals need 70 intelligence to do either, but you get items to increase it occasionally, so use them
Well, that went on for a while, but here's your big infodump about Dragon Force made into small bullet points. It should let you beat the game easily. It's honestly far more hard when you have no idea what you're doing. Let me know if you have any questions.
1) don't start with Mikhail or Leon. Wein is probably the best starter character
2) learn the soldier units weaknesses and strengths, sort of like you are playing Fire Emblem (e.g. read the manual for a complete chart)
3) never attack a castle without a full party
4) when the enemy comes charging with the most offensive formation, just sit tight with your guys, use some power like the upgraded sonic booms to thin their numbers, and let the remaining come
5) certain castles have one single item, the best one is at Crystal near Palemon: dragon crest, which gives you dragon units strong against nearly everything, with samurai being their only weakness
6) don't sit around too comfortably without expanding but don't expand too fast either, at some point you'll be attacked by a bunch of loser rogues but
later it turns into actual dragon marauders
7) don't bother with Bastion, the guy will constantly switch loyalties if there's a girl in the enemy team, which is hilarious at first, but you know
8) when invited to come alone into a tower by
a guy who looks like a vampire
edit:
9) don't bother with generals which have a generic face (i.e. repeating face), they are never worth bothering training up
10) if there are enemy generals coming on the road, just retreat back to the closest castle for extra defense; you'll be at a disadvantage a lot of times fighting on the middle of the road.
11) after you are finished, time to start up again with another main character; the initial story arcs are completely different based on your choice of main character and even the minor plots (quite a few of those per character) and different twists should keep you interested in playing another path. It's that Fire Emblem Fates thing but done much better
12) oh, if there's a unit type you should never bother with it's elf archers, they are really very frail and kill basically nothing. On the other hand, mages can be pretty powerful if you can micromanage them into the right spots, like surrounding the leader, which can be fairly hard if you don't know what you're doing
13) search or fortify a castle? Probably the former in the initial stages and the latter from the mid point onwards. If I recall right, generals need 70 intelligence to do either, but you get items to increase it occasionally, so use them
Well, that went on for a while, but here's your big infodump about Dragon Force made into small bullet points. It should let you beat the game easily. It's honestly far more hard when you have no idea what you're doing. Let me know if you have any questions.
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I usually use standby if they coming towards me. If I find I have to move forward I usually select Disperse and when my army has flanked both sides and covered it enough I select Advance and let them close in ala Pincer movement.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincer_movement
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thanks!
OOooo very pretty!I feel the land of Legendra calling
Battles incoming!
I finally had a browse through the Shining Force book I picked up in Japan. I thought it was a guide book, but WOW it's actually a really gorgeous art-book for Holy Ark and 3 Trilogy. I took some snaps to share;
I put them in quotes, otherwise they come out HUGE
Such great character designs and art work. Makes me miss the old Shining and sad to see what it's become.
I also loved the Japanese naming of characters. Names like "Comrade", "Scholar", "Tyranny", "Bribable". It makes it impressive that the original translation team came up with great names, IE Turning 'Fear' into 'Fiale' etc.
I put them in quotes, otherwise they come out HUGE
Such great character designs and art work. Makes me miss the old Shining and sad to see what it's become.
I also loved the Japanese naming of characters. Names like "Comrade", "Scholar", "Tyranny", "Bribable". It makes it impressive that the original translation team came up with great names, IE Turning 'Fear' into 'Fiale' etc.
I own that book and it is indeed gorgeous. Also own the soundtrack CD. The first Shining Force 3 scenario is one of my favorite JRPG memories from back in the day. It's the reason why I like my RPGs with a bunch of political stuff and why Final Fantasy Tactics is my favorite of that particular franchise and also why I got so into the Trails / Kiseki series.
I really have to stop sitting around and find a way to run the translations of the second and third scenario, though. I've been waiting for years to play them, there's proper translations now, and I still haven't got to them due to the technical mess of emulators/exisiting solutions to run backups on the legit system. That solution to run things from the MPEG card slot would be perfect but it's been like two years since it was announced and so far nada.
I really have to stop sitting around and find a way to run the translations of the second and third scenario, though. I've been waiting for years to play them, there's proper translations now, and I still haven't got to them due to the technical mess of emulators/exisiting solutions to run backups on the legit system. That solution to run things from the MPEG card slot would be perfect but it's been like two years since it was announced and so far nada.
I got Burning Rangers and Daytona USA Circuit Edition, my first Saturn purchases in quite a while. Burning Rangers seems difficult to play, as was suggested earlier. I'm gonna need to look up a guide that explains at least the basics before tackling it. For some reason I learned how to dodge during the tutorial, only to never be able to pull it off correctly in the mission.
Daytona USA has never been a favorite of mine, and I always thought it was weird that it had such a following. I spent some time with it in the arcades, but after the release of Sega Rally, which controls roughly two billion times better, I saw no reason to bother with Daytona again. Circuit Edition feels different from how I remember it, but I no longer own the western Saturn release to compare it with. Oh well, it's not like I was going to play it anyway.
And regarding Shining Force 3 translations, that seems like a giant mess to deal with. In fact I'm not sure it's even possible to do it if you don't run Windows, because it's all zip files containing exe files on the translation project website. With instructions in a doc file, because of course. I keep delaying my playthrough of scenario 1 so that I won't have to deal with the ripping and patching process.
Daytona USA has never been a favorite of mine, and I always thought it was weird that it had such a following. I spent some time with it in the arcades, but after the release of Sega Rally, which controls roughly two billion times better, I saw no reason to bother with Daytona again. Circuit Edition feels different from how I remember it, but I no longer own the western Saturn release to compare it with. Oh well, it's not like I was going to play it anyway.
And regarding Shining Force 3 translations, that seems like a giant mess to deal with. In fact I'm not sure it's even possible to do it if you don't run Windows, because it's all zip files containing exe files on the translation project website. With instructions in a doc file, because of course. I keep delaying my playthrough of scenario 1 so that I won't have to deal with the ripping and patching process.
Heh, really need to hook up my Saturn soon nd finally beat dragon force... although it may be time for a new save battery(although I did replace it last January so I may be good). I'll post my collection soon, I've got fight sticks and a good mix of fighters.., but not many games of other genres due to prices. Heck I only have the Japanese copy of virtual on because I never found a confident us copy of it(grabbed it when I bought X-Men vs street fighter, and this funky racing combat game)
Well, here's my humble collection. Started colllecting 4 or 5 years ago, although been on a years break from buying retro stuff.
Not a comprehensive or perfect collection but considering my budget and the fact I managed to buy 2/3s of it in person, I'm decently proud of it, not that there aren't holes I'd like to fill. Only the two facedown ones are missing manuals casewise. Got several of the not so great games for the spare cases, not that there are any unplayable games, although a few of dubious game quality
It's nice to have some other enthusiasts to chat and discuss with
Not a comprehensive or perfect collection but considering my budget and the fact I managed to buy 2/3s of it in person, I'm decently proud of it, not that there aren't holes I'd like to fill. Only the two facedown ones are missing manuals casewise. Got several of the not so great games for the spare cases, not that there are any unplayable games, although a few of dubious game quality
It's nice to have some other enthusiasts to chat and discuss with
Me too! I absolutely adored SFIII on Saturn. It was so unlike anything I'd played at the time, and I found myself so engrossed in the world and gameplay. I remember thinking afterwards that all JRPGS would play like Shining Force, and was sorely disappointed to find they didn't. I should go try out Fire Emblem, I heard those are similar.
I also distinctly remember that I got hopelessly stuck on my first play-through against the Vandal boss in the haunted city. So much so that I stopped that play through and started a new one, because as stuck as I was, I loved the game so much I wanted to keep playing anyway. I got to the same point in the second play through when I learnt about 'grinding'. In hindsight, you probably don't need to, but for 11 year old Made Man, that was my path to beating the Vandal. Got everyone promoted and then steamrolled him. I must have finished that game a bunch of times to get all the special moves, then when I got access to the internet, to find all the secret characters.
As for running the translations; it's not as scary as it seems. SSF emulates the games quite well, and if you follow the instructions and have the original discs then the patch isn't too difficult to get running :)
It's well, well worth the effort, trust me! I need to do that again. It's on my list to do this year.
I'd love to do it on the original hardware, but I'm very wary of physically altering things on my Saturn, since they're getting harder and harder to come by. I'll do some more research into it, but if not I'll stick with the emu.
I managed to buy it for Y2,000 at a Book Off, so it's quite reasonable! Mine was in immaculate condition too. I also found a really cool Fighters Megamix guide book for like Y150 or something ridiculous.
As above for the SFIII translation. It's not that bad, but it certainly looks really intimidating. If you're on Linux or OSX then I don't know much to help though, sorry. I'm a windows scrub.
With regards to Daytona, I was talking to a friend about that game last year, and he told me that there's actually a lot to it that's not immediately obvious with regards to drifting and other mechanics that are often overlooked. I want to revisit with that in mind. There might be some forums or old sites that explain the depth to better help us enjoy it (kind of like how I found the Crazy Taxi website and the game opened up immensely for me).
Well, here's my humble collection. Started colllecting 4 or 5 years ago, although been on a years break from buying retro stuff.
Not a comprehensive or perfect collection but considering my budget and the fact I managed to buy 2/3s of it in person, I'm decently proud of it, not that there aren't holes I'd like to fill. Only the two facedown ones are missing manuals casewise. Got several of the not so great games for the spare cases, not that there are any unplayable games, although a few of dubious game quality
It's nice to have some other enthusiasts to chat and discuss with
Nice! You've got some really fun and cool games there! I love the dual Virtua Sticks too!!
Yeah, now if only I had a multi tap for Vatvla, and bomberman fight... well and the people to play with
^that's a nice collection man, got some greats in there!
just wanted to say thanks for this post, ive bookmarked it on my phone & will finally be playing that game soon!
this is gorgeous! my man Leav has gotta have a copy i imagine...any idea what they go for now?
just wanted to say thanks for this post, ive bookmarked it on my phone & will finally be playing that game soon!
this is gorgeous! my man Leav has gotta have a copy i imagine...any idea what they go for now?
That Vatlva also supports MPEG card if you want to see the FMV in a bigger screen. I had owned it years ago but always thought of it as a demo. The music by Yuzo Koshiro is amazing
great lil' collection you have there
Yeah, still need to actually play virtual on and gun griffin though. Heck, I'm due for some playing overall after I put in some time on the Dreamcast. Although I'm just working off the standard rca cords for output. Same reason it's been a bit since the collections grown, I'm just not up to chucking in the cash for the greats I'm missing
that's awesome! where at? if anyone can provide a link, i'm in!
I just found it while randomly browsing Book Off in Japan. Can't fermenter if it was Osaka or Tokyo sorry :x
ahh that's cool, appreciate it though man! what's the title on it? maybe i can keep an eye out online or whenever i get over there!
Panzer Dragoon Saga fans.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/24/16925534/panzer-dragoon-saga-soundtrack-composer-interview
I really enjoyed most of the music in the original game. It will be interesting to hear what changes have been made but I thought it perfect first time round.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/24/16925534/panzer-dragoon-saga-soundtrack-composer-interview
I really enjoyed most of the music in the original game. It will be interesting to hear what changes have been made but I thought it perfect first time round.
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^god i love that
started dragon force, and man...fuck these marduk or whoever guys that show up everyday just to start shit! i have a few castles going, starting to sort out things like reserves reupping every day & such, not sure how awards work yet (or why some generals are salty during the daily parlay?), but i brought the manual to read today!
started dragon force, and man...fuck these marduk or whoever guys that show up everyday just to start shit! i have a few castles going, starting to sort out things like reserves reupping every day & such, not sure how awards work yet (or why some generals are salty during the daily parlay?), but i brought the manual to read today!
During the weekly domestics.
The awards you give a general will increase their army size by 10 for each medal up to 100 troops per general.
Fortifying a castle can boost the defence/attack of a defence party. When you fortify a castle you gradually increase the pool of troop reserves which you need to replenish ASAP when a battle has been fought. Only a few generals can fortify and it seems to be random luck whether they succeed or fail, or you can just let a general sit in the castle and it will slowly level up. A castle and de-level too after an invasion.
The awards you give a general will increase their army size by 10 for each medal up to 100 troops per general.
Fortifying a castle can boost the defence/attack of a defence party. When you fortify a castle you gradually increase the pool of troop reserves which you need to replenish ASAP when a battle has been fought. Only a few generals can fortify and it seems to be random luck whether they succeed or fail, or you can just let a general sit in the castle and it will slowly level up. A castle and de-level too after an invasion.
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ah, cool! so far though, both search and fortify have failed, but ive been doing the latter (looking back, against Saoshyant's advice) so i think ill just be searching from now on.
(weird, i'd assumed awards would please the generals who are talking smack during audience parts)
if i retreat from a castle, i assume i lose said castle & captives...but if a general falls in battle, do you lose them as captives too? is there permadeath? reading the manual & watching this video now!
(weird, i'd assumed awards would please the generals who are talking smack during audience parts)
if i retreat from a castle, i assume i lose said castle & captives...but if a general falls in battle, do you lose them as captives too? is there permadeath? reading the manual & watching this video now!
The only item worth giving generals who are talking smack is the faith coin, which ensures their loyalty. You want to search more in the early game for the items, but after that you'll be more busy defending castles than anything and you also need to replenish 100 soldiers per general frequently, so fortifying will be more important then.
Is Final Fight Revenge as bad as people say? I love the original game (legit top 3 all time favorite) and a one on one fighter with that style and atmosphere seems right up my alley.
Is this a case of "underwhelming for it's time" or is it legitimately bad?
Is this a case of "underwhelming for it's time" or is it legitimately bad?
Anyone know whether there is anything emulating Saturn on Retropie very well yet? It'd be great to see that shmup library hit that one day.
Great! What is this Nights... thing?
Btw, absolutely love Torico. And it's music
laeva's pickups for me from japan showed up last night...some really high wants off my saturn list, and an excellent Shining in the Darkness guide tossed in there - full color & maps, perfect for my next playthrough!
thank you again so much man, here's to hopefully meeting up in march.
Saturn was a goldmine for shmups. Just look at this dream pile someone put up from their collection on youtube.
Glorious.
Glorious.
Nice collection. Years ago Kiken from the shmups forum made a video with footage of all 55 shooting games on Saturn. I remember putting it on a DVD a while ago, lol. I know they still have an active presence on Youtube with 1CC runs and the like, so I'll have to check if it's uploaded there as well.
goddamn, that's gorgeous - ive given up on so many of those, haha. got battle garegga (physical!) on PS4 recently, batsugunn would've been cool but at this point i think i'd just take a deal on the thunder force gold packs.
double post, but: back to dragon force!
can anyone break down strategy & the formations? so far, most times the enemy comes rushing in & i just use defensive/stay still or whatever and let them run into our swords, then switch to melee.
i saw disperse was a good one to split the teams along the screen's edges (good for projectiles & such coming down the middle), and one general let me get my enemy cavalry in a pincer attack, but there's a lot of them there i don't know the specifcs of, or when to use em.
can anyone break down strategy & the formations? so far, most times the enemy comes rushing in & i just use defensive/stay still or whatever and let them run into our swords, then switch to melee.
i saw disperse was a good one to split the teams along the screen's edges (good for projectiles & such coming down the middle), and one general let me get my enemy cavalry in a pincer attack, but there's a lot of them there i don't know the specifcs of, or when to use em.
You'll most likely find the game has depth akin to something like Toshinden. It uses 5 buttons; weak/strong punch, weak/strong kick and a button for special attack. It's fun in 2 player but you'll probably get bored quickly. I would have liked to own it just for a collectors piece but now the price is just too much.
I'm surprised they don't have Game Tengoku, Cotton 2 or MSX collection in that photo :P
IrishNinja
I normally stick to those two formations anyway. Either standby/advance or disperse/advance
You'll find later on generals can use spell attacks such as ones that suck your armies into a vortex and big AOE attacks so you'll have to move your armies quick. Also if you are facing a full army of 100 and your generals are down to 0 armies all is NOT lost so before you flee your castle. After a battle if any of your generals have enough SP to cast special attacks but no army send them in even if they plead resist. The idea is to take down as much of the enemy army just using a special attack and then retreat before their hp is reduced to 0. You might find that some enemy generals have a spell to lock your general so they cannot flee SO BEWARE of this tactic! Then you can send in your general with whatever army they have remaining to fight the last fight! You could win... just saying!
EDIT:
Also there are some generals that have a special attack that shoots straight through the middle of the screen directly into your general and normally wipes out a row of your army. If you become familiar to the attacks of these generals particularly those of the Skull Children like Paine and Agonni. I would disperse my army for a split second then select standby creating a just enough gap for enemy's special to fly through and reducing damage to my army numbers.
The speed of selecting your general's special attack could also help with winning the battle so keep an eye out as that SP bar fills up to max!
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I should finally play Dragon Force. I always give up after an hour. Actually the only SRPGs I've ever liked outside of the Shining series has been Valkyria and Disgaea. There's something about every other series I hate, especially Fire Emblem.
^ yeah i started & put it down several times before too man, now that i gave it a chance i'm really getting into it though!
yeah, i took a pic of the manual page showing the paper-rock-scissors of each class & what they're weak against.
okay so as long as i'm not defending a castle, i can have generals flee, yeah? you're saying use their specials to whittle down enemy armies/general even if their own army's done? that could work, god knows i pulled a hail mary against the obese king last night and let a few generals get captured just to duel & put in work against the last few enemy generals.
they can't die that way, can they? god i hope not. also is it random, in terms of which enemy generals become captives or die?
yeah, i took a pic of the manual page showing the paper-rock-scissors of each class & what they're weak against.
okay so as long as i'm not defending a castle, i can have generals flee, yeah? you're saying use their specials to whittle down enemy armies/general even if their own army's done? that could work, god knows i pulled a hail mary against the obese king last night and let a few generals get captured just to duel & put in work against the last few enemy generals.
they can't die that way, can they? god i hope not. also is it random, in terms of which enemy generals become captives or die?
Most generals don't die (they get incapacitated for two/three weeks) but a small few do (can't remember who, but it's no one important) -- those are fixed. Careful when using that retreating tactic though because when it happens from a very disadvantaged point your general may get incapacitated for those two/three weeks mentioned, and it's pretty frustrating when it happens to someone you actually need around.
That tactic is a gamble though!
The more random ones you encounter throughout land of Legendra can die and lose them forever.
Some captured generals will only turn friendly depending on what region you have allegiance with
What's the best way to play Shining Force III with the translation patch on Saturn? I have the original discs, and can use the emulator, but it would be amazing to play on the actual Hardware via CRT.
Is the swap trick safe, or will it destroy the motor? I don't know if I want to invest in a Rhea just for those games, or hack my Action Replay.
If it's too hard I'll just go Emulation and use the Saturns I own for factory originals.
Is the swap trick safe, or will it destroy the motor? I don't know if I want to invest in a Rhea just for those games, or hack my Action Replay.
If it's too hard I'll just go Emulation and use the Saturns I own for factory originals.
Before I had a Rhea, I used a mod chip. It's not that hard to install and wasn't very expensive. I don't know if it's still easy to get one though.
I'll have a look online. Thanks!
Is there an actual one I should be looking for?