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Fou-Lu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,339
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Panzer Dragoon Saga is a game I have long be fascinated by, it came out for a console that died quickly and became an incredibly rare and expensive gem that is acclaimed by those who have played it. Over the years I have tried numerous times to play it, but three Saturns with dead lasers later I had pretty much given up. Recently I learned that the Mednafen Saturn core could play the game in its entirety and so I promised myself I would do so.

I was told to play Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon II Zwei (Panzer Dragoon 2 2? Okay then) before Saga and so I started with those. The first two games are fun rail shooters where you ride a dragon. The second game in particular is now my favourite rail shooter. Having played Saga as well I agree with playing the two before it, the stories are in the same world after all and may even intersect.

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Coming up on Panzer Dragoon Saga I knew it would be beautiful for a Saturn game (how could you go wrong with that art style anyway?), just like the first two games, and I knew it would have a great soundtrack, also like the first two games, but I didn't know much about how it would play. It wasn't long before I realized PDS might have one of my favourite RPG battle systems ever.

The battle system is an innovative take on ATB where positioning matters. At any given time during a battle you can position yourself to one of the four quadrants (west, north, east, south) surrounding the enemy. They in turn can move around you. Each of quadrants can be coloured either green, clear or red. Green regions are safe and the enemy cannot attack in those regions, clear regions are where the enemy does their weaker attacks, and finally red regions are where the most powerful enemy attacks come out to play. You have to move about the enemy to prevent being attacked, but keep in mind that the weak points of the enemy are often in unsafe zones! The enemy weak points sometimes require specific tactics to open as well.

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For actions you have three ATB gauges that fill up one after the other. The ATB does not charge while you are moving, so you have to stay still to build up actions. Certain actions (your Berserks which are like spells used by your dragon) can take up two or three gauges to be used. Your rider and your dragon each have a different default attack: the dragon shoots lasers that hit multiple enemies or points on an enemy, but the targets cannot be chosen, the rider has a gun that shoots one target of your choice. Both of these actions take a single gauge to use. Your actions can also be 'chained' together. If you hold down the menu/attack button during an attack and have enough gauge to use another action it will happen instantly after your attack ends, preventing an enemy action between your own.

Status effects fit the battle system well. For example there is a status effect that makes it so only a max of one atb gauge will fill, another that makes it so you can't move but can attack, and a complimentary one that makes it so you can move but not attack.

The game encourages you to do well in battles by assigning you a grade for the battle and awarding you with more EXP, money and items the higher your grade.

You can also change the balance of stats on your dragon on the fly, increasing one will decrease another, change the stats enough and the class and appearance of the dragon will change. The berserks your dragon learns are influenced by the class the dragon is in upon levelling up and grants you the use of a special super move that consumes three gauges.

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There are three different progression systems: 1. Your dragon levels up from gathering EXP, 2. at certain story points your dragon morphs which gives bigger bonuses than a level up and increases the power of their laser (this increased laser power also allows you to access things on the field maps that you couldn't before), 3. The rider can equip different guns.

If someone had explained this battle system to me before I likely would have done anything to play this game as soon as possible, so I hope that encourages some of you to do so!

Outside of battles there are three possible types of map: the world map is a simple map where you select your next location, field maps come in two types, those where you rider your dragon, fight enemies and break objects to gain items and progress, and those where you walk around as a rider, talking to characters and buying items. At camp, where you can save your game and talk to any character currently tagging along on your adventure, you can also interact with your dragon, building your bond with the majestic creature. This eventually unlocks a special Berserk for your dragons, so be sure to treat them right!

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The characters in this game are great! They all have their own motivations and tales to tell. Dialogue with NPCs often changes after important story events. You come to know the people, their world and care about it all. It's difficult to discuss the characters or the story without spoiling too much. It's a wonderful ride with incredible pacing (the game takes about 15 hours to complete and it is always moving forward) and a lot of surprises along the way. I suppose I can give the basic premise: You play as Edge, a mercenary who stumbles upon something he shouldn't have that leads to tragedy and a quest for revenge, as well as a dragon for a new best friend. Supporting character include the mysterious, Azel who has some kind of connection to the dragons, Gash, the seeker of ancient technology who seems to know more than he says, Paet, the eccentric and helpful mechanic, and Craymen, a rebel against the Empire and your greatest enemy.

The soundtrack is all killer, no filler and if you want to support someone who actually helped develop the game you can buy the rearranged OST (by the original composer, Saori Kobayashi).





My time with this game and the two before it went far beyond my expectations, if I had played them when they first came out I strongly believe they would have shaped me in the same way that my other favourites from that generation did. PDS is an experience I will never forget and I will likely be replaying for years to come. I look forward to playing Panzer Dragoon Orta in the near future!

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Windrunner

Sly
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,611
PDS and Shining Force 3 are tied for that accolade for me. I finished it when it first came out but I haven't really replayed it since; I should fix that sometime.
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Banned
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
No; it's FF7 for me. FFT is also better I think. Suikoden 2 as well... that time in the 90's had a ton of amazing RPGs. But PDS is fucking amazing and everyone should play it. I really need to play Shining Force 3 one day though.
 

Tito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,030
Never played it, can you play it anywhere else? If not, is it playable in an emulator, or do I have to track an old Saturn and buy an incredibly expensive game?
 

Loneck

Member
Feb 26, 2018
154
I cannot think of any other game which deserves remaster more than this game. Source code is lost according to Sega but maybe Bluepoint could reverse engineer it if somebody put money on the table.
 

Nanomage

Member
Dec 21, 2017
45
As far as console RPG's go its up there,maybe even top 3 of that gen. Personally,I liked Dragon Force and Shining Force 3 even more than PDS,though they are more on the strategy side. When you consider PC RPG's into the mix though,that's a very different story.
 

'3y Kingdom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,496
It's a fantastic game that I'm replaying at the moment and enjoying more than ever. What I admire most about it is how it leverages the necessarily empty and dully colored environments of its 32-bit world in a brilliant way by using them to support a moody, post-apocalyptic plot, which is further accentuated by accompanying them with a truly alien-sounding soundtrack. I still think that plot could have been a little more developed, but having the game be fully voiced in Japanese (and a little Panzerese) must have been a major obstacle when it came to this.

The battle system is unique and engaging, but a little too easy to exploit for my liking. It's very Sega in that a lot of the challenge is self-imposed and arcade-y, such as trying to get better grades on enemy encounters (which also gives you more EXP, items, and money). It's more demanding moment-to-moment than most RPGs, but not very demanding overall, if that makes sense. That's not to say it's ever boring, though; I love how every encounter is a little puzzle in terms of figuring out where it's safe to be, what the enemy is weak to, and when to reposition oneself. If the game had been more influential, I imagine we could have seen some really challenging implementations of this framework in a sequel.

It's a game that any RPG enthusiast should try, because there's really nothing like it in the genre, perhaps because of how poorly it sold on a forgotten platform. If it weren't so costly to find a copy and a well working Saturn to go with it, I'd recommend it to anyone without a second thought. It's probably not the best RPG of that gen, but it's definitely the most distinctive.
 

Femto0

Banned
Apr 28, 2018
2,591
Fantastic game and one of my favorite.the soundtrack is so good and Azel is a hell of character
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
Even limiting the selection to the Saturn alone, I'd take Dragon Force over this game.

PDS was pretty solid and definitely unique, though.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
I cannot think of any other game which deserves remaster more than this game. Source code is lost according to Sega but maybe Bluepoint could reverse engineer it if somebody put money on the table.
I think the guys that made Phantom Dust would be more adequate, considering what they did without touching the code.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,564
it's tight between pds, shining force 3 s1-3 and breath of fire 3. I'd probably just give it to bof3 because I love the characters so much, but I wouldn't argue with someone who preferred pds. Battle system is awesome, va is awesome, aesthetic is awesome, atmosphere is awesome. It's so good.

It may as well be the argument for greatest jrpg ever as well.
 

futurevoid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,993
It's a wonderful game and I am a proud owner of an original copy for the Saturn that I'm super thankful to have.

Make sure to play Panzer Dragoon Orta as well if you haven't. It's an implied sequel to Saga in many ways and its every bit as good as the Saturn games in the series. It's also X enhanced on Xbox One and looks absolutely stunning.

Never played it, can you play it anywhere else? If not, is it playable in an emulator, or do I have to track an old Saturn and buy an incredibly expensive game?
Only available on the Saturn and its desperately needs a remaster/re-release. Emulation is doable and there are ways to play it on original hardware as well but that's not stuff we can talk about here for obvious reasons.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,783
I only beat the first disc but i loved what i played. Haven't got a chance to play the rest but it holds up well imo.

I would kill for a remake though i believe sega lost the code? Idk. Maybe one day. I didn't think final fantasy 7 would be remade, shenmue 3 coming out or that the last guardian would not be cancelled pre-e3 2015 so dreams come true
 

Molto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,022
Glad I own a Saturn copy, but this really needs to be remastered. It still holds up incredibly well today, and I think would sell pretty well with a fresh coat of HD paint. But it's Sega after all, they seem to forget about the treasure trove of classic IP's they have.
 

Deleted member 10428

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,083
One of the best JRPGs I've played thats for sure. And the best turn based combat system ever, it's just so damn fun.
 

Koozek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,913
To anyone who missed it, this is an aboslute must-read feature with many of the devs from a few months ago:

The Ruinous Road of Gaming's Missing Masterpiece
'Panzer Dragoon Saga' remains one of the greatest video games of all time. Twenty years after its creation, it also remains nearly impossible to play, a cult classic whose elusiveness mirrors the misery that suffused its development, setting, and story.​


 

tommyv2

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,425
It's a great game but I was disappointed with it regardless. It's the first game of "value" I ever bought, so it's special to me no matter how it turned out.
 

gilko79

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,219
Ivalice
It's up there for sure. I'm glad I had the opportunity to play it all those years ago, especially given its cult status and high price tag.
 

Scythesurge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
228
I really need to play this game still, I've wanted to for 20 years now! I watched one of my friends play through the beginning and it really does seem like a special game, it's too bad that it's so hard to get a hold of this game. I think even if this game got remade that I'd want to play the original and experience it in it's pixely glory.
 

Koozek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,913
I played this game for the first time two years ago or so and absolutely loved it, but I couldn't finish it after it unfortunately always stopped working at same point in the game. The setting, art-style, music, combat - everything's so unique.

I just wish it was re-released someday :(


Ever since I played it I've also been phantasizing about a mainline FF with a similar setting and design as PDS/Moebius:
Moebius:

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Panzer Dragoon Saga:

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Interestingly FFX's early concepts by Yusuke Naora were more Moebius-inspired:

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IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
I really want to play this again in a current platform. A truly magic experience at the time. Best Saturn RPG (Shining Force 3 was incredible aswell)
 

Katana_Strikes

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,800
It was a good game back in the day, nothing outstanding but I'm not sure how well it would hold up today. It's been a while. But I sure wouldn't mind giving it another shot if they updated it and brought it back.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,564
I played this game for the first time two years ago or so and absolutely loved it, but I couldn't finish it after it unfortunately always stopped working at same point in the game. The setting, art-style, music, combat - everything's so unique.

I just wish it was re-released someday :(

Stopped? Real saturn or via emulation?
 
Oct 27, 2017
356
It is without a doubt one of the best but there are certainly weaknesses to it, including the length and having only one town. I love the game and as I get older I appreciate a hyper-focused short game more than a 40-hour epic but that wasn't always the case.

That said I was lucky enough to get this one for $40 a couple months after release and absolutely adored it. Even then it was known as "the mighty Panzer Dragoon Saga"
 

kvetcha

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,835
This and Shining Force 3 are both insanely good, but PDS is really unlike anything else. And what a story.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Agh I want to play this so badly. I'd kill for any kind of re-release. Half the reason I have an OG Xbox is to play Panzer Dragoon Orta.

Panzer Dragoon: The Pandora's Box Collection: Where you at?
 

Bitanator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,068
It is one of the most brilliant gaming experiences I've ever had, it rivals Chrono Trigger in pacing.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,397
I really dug the game but really everything involving the dragon was fantastic while the 'land-based' stuff felt really weak.
Lots of hunting down specific unmarked NPC's or trigger points for cutscenes(often backtracking through repeated terrain to do so to and fro)
The pacing hit a standstill during those town moments really.

But the combat was superb, not just the act of battle, but the dragon morphing stuff. Just fantastic.
Exploring the cavernous areas on dragonback was novel. Some nifty secrets to hunt out too.
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,185
Never played it.
Probably never will.

It's becoming harder and harder to find the excitement in discussing a prohibitively expensive game that'll never see a re-release.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,994
In my mind, it's the best of that generation, and the first RPG ever that I 100%'d. Totally regret selling it and Radiant Silvergun back in the day, but needed the funds at the time!
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
For its generation yes, Panzer Dragoon Saga was the best RPG. I can't think of a better one. I want to qualify this by saying that I played the game during its generation so I'm comparing it to its approximate contemporaries as opposed to going back two decades later. But I rate it far above any of the JRPGs of its generation, including Final Fantasy VII and Chrono Cross and Xenogears, which I think were probably the other contenders for best RPG of that time period.

Great world, story, and characters. Awesome combat system that brought the feel of the rail shooters to an RPG. I think the progression was a bit simple but in a game where there's a single player character instead of a party that's usually going to be the case.

More gamers need to play this one. To me, it was hands-down a better RPG than Final Fantasy VII. It's a shame that it's been relegated to the dust bin of history. I usually see VII on "best RPG" lists but never PDS.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
The 5th gen was one hell of a time for RPGs. Panzer Dragoon Saga is just one amazing RPG in an amazing gen.
 

Sevvybgoode

Member
Oct 29, 2017
451
This and xenogears are the standouts of that gen for me. Tbh I'd put it up there with Chrono Trigger and ff6 as my favourite jrpg of all time.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,042
One of the best games ever made as far as i'm concerned and I will never miss a chance to promote it. Fantastic art, music, characters and battle system. I genuinely wish Sega would remake it to launch the PD franchise again.

The Saturn had great RPGs, this, Shining Force 3, Shining the Holy Arc, Dragonforce, Beyond Oasis 2.
 

RPTGB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,189
UK
There's very few games where the game, art and sound design all came together as beautifully as PDS. Absolutely a classic.