• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

ERA please teach me about Panzer Dragoon

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
As of right now I'm listening to some of the Panzer Dragoon OST (from all over the series) and man what a great Soundtrack. I'm getting a late 80s Anime vibe at some points.
It wouldn't be the first game I would buy because of the music...
Point is, that I would like te hear a bit about the series, what made it special, if it's one big story or if every game stands for itself, where to start or if the games are too outdated to be enjoyable.

I never had a Saturn back then (I was a kid and who even had a Saturn besides Japan) but do buy old games and consoles every now and then if I'm lucky and the price is right.
So I would be pleased to hear what you have to say and maybe there are games nowadays that have similarities.

Thanks a lot!
 
Clive

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,125
For me the games are just such epic journeys for their time. Flying across vast oceans, over snowy landscapes, deep valleys and massive enemy fortresses fighting hordes of enemies with gameplay which felt like nothing else. Some of the bosses and art/architecture are spectacular too. I don't think any game has ever blown me away as much as when I flew out over the "insanely realistic water" of Panzer Dragoon 1 to the music of Flight. Gaming doesn't get more epic than that.

The story of Saga and Zwei have connections and I'd recommend playing Zwei first (or after PD1). Orta can be played completely separately.
 
Last edited:
Ishmae1

Ishmae1

Creative Director, Microsoft
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
542
Seattle, WA
I was listening to the PD Saga soundtrack on my commute in this morning. =)

The Panzer series started as an on-rails shooter in which you were controlling a dragon and rider at the same time. You rotate in 90 degree "cones" to face forward / back or left / right and shot all kinds of enemies and projectiles headed your way, while simultaneously controlling the dragon to avoid enemies and physical obstacles.

For me, I fell in love with the original from the intro cinematic onwards. The world of PD is unique, a post-apocalyptic setting that's... different... to not give a lot away. The music was also wonderful, creating a great sense of adventure, discovery, and retrospective loss on a world that's fallen and risen in a new form.

There's 4 main games in the PD series, 1, 2, Saga, and Orta, in order of release. Combat and dragon dynamics evolved over the course of the first three games from weapon modes to morphing dragons, finally cumulating in Saga, the RPG which to this day is still one of my favorite RPG combat systems ever developed. It solved the "mash A" problem that most RPGs have after hours into them by making positioning and timing important to quick battles. Some of that was carried into the boss fights in Orta.

The story from 1, 2, and Saga all add to the world's lore. I can't fully remember if all the stories are directly connected, but I don't remember them being. There's major world reveals in Saga towards the end that I wish we'd eventually see more from.

For me, the magic was the amazing world, the wonderful soundtrack, and the sense of discovery as you explored this mostly abandoned world. Also, it was fun to play and had mastery rankings that unlocked all kinds of extras, so that didn't hurt either.
 
ssnick37

ssnick37

Member
Oct 27, 2017
417
Ishmae1 said:
I was listening to the PD Saga soundtrack on my commute in this morning. =)

The Panzer series started as an on-rails shooter in which you were controlling a dragon and rider at the same time. You rotate in 90 degree "cones" to face forward / back or left / right and shot all kinds of enemies and projectiles headed your way, while simultaneously controlling the dragon to avoid enemies and physical obstacles.

For me, I fell in love with the original from the intro cinematic onwards. The world of PD is unique, a post-apocalyptic setting that's... different... to not give a lot away. The music was also wonderful, creating a great sense of adventure, discovery, and retrospective loss on a world that's fallen and risen in a new form.

There's 5 games in the PD series, 1, 2, 3, Saga, and Orta, in order of release. Combat and dragon dynamics evolved over the course of the first three games from weapon modes to morphing dragons, finally cumulating in Saga, the RPG which to this day is still one of my favorite RPG combat systems ever developed. It solved the "mash A" problem that most RPGs have after hours into them by making positioning and timing important to quick battles. Some of that was carried into the boss fights in Orta.

The story from 1, 2, 3, and Saga all add to the world's lore. I can't fully remember if all the stories are directly connected, but I don't remember them being. There's major world reveals in Saga towards the end that I wish we'd eventually see more from.

For me, the magic was the amazing world, the wonderful soundtrack, and the sense of discovery as you explored this mostly abandoned world. Also, it was fun to play and had mastery rankings that unlocked all kinds of extras, so that didn't hurt either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...



I thought PD3 was PD Saga?
 
ShinUltramanJ

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
Man, I remember when this came out with the Saturn, and the big spread in Gamefan magazine. My second Saturn game, right after Daytona.

Never played Saga as it released late in Saturn's life, which by that point I moved on to PlayStation. I did play the others though and Zwei was my personal favorite.

The closest thing to PD in terms of mechanics would be Omega Boost from Polyphony Digital. It's well worth checking out as well.

If OP is looking to play these games I'd imagine the cheapest route might be an Xbox with Orta. As I recall the original PD is unlockable, so that's two of them right there.
 
Al3x1s

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
No games are similar enough, play the originals, the first two aren't expensive to get and Saga you can always sell back after playing it. No idea about Orta but you can skip it, it's more of a fan made thing with AAA backing, it doesn't quite share the same soul as far as I'm concerned but it does have some good gameplay ideas taken from mixing some of the concepts from Saga with Zwei, it's the visuals and storyline that don't quite match up to the Team Andromeda games. Chronologically Zwei is first, 1 second, Saga third so you can play them in that order, or in order of release, but the first game has aged the most so playing it first might put you off so you should know the others are vast improvements. There are large periods of time between them as well so their stories are also quite stand alone, characters/entities other than dragons etc aren't shared, Orta is again the one different entry in that aspect, but not quite.




There are three more games you can skip, PD Mini on the Game Gear, Panzer Dragoon Tiger Electronics LCD thing, and Panzer Dragoon Orta promotional flash game you can get from here (I made sure to save the thing before the official Orta site was taken down, I dunno what it may take to get it working right on current browsers since it's old flash - edit: ok it works fine if you just open the index file with Internet Explorer, not Edge, Firefox, etc., after extracting it all to the same place). No story or much of quality in any of these but the flash game was a fun diversion while waiting for Orta's release.

PD1 got a re-release on PlayStation 2 with SEGA AGES in Japan but it wasn't much of an improvement. Same resolution, same frame rate, same draw distance, some redone fancied up models and FMV retouching which was for the worse. PD1 is also included as an unlockable (I think, maybe you can actually access it from the start) in Orta.

Omega Boost on the PlayStation was by some of the same creators or something but it didn't scratch the same itch. It's still a neat game and I like its wacky sci fi, I'd like a free roaming mech game sequel a la ZOE, heh.

Similarly for Crimson Dragon, though I never actually played that so I won't judge it too harshly only having watched it.
 
Last edited:
Emerald Hawk

Emerald Hawk

Member
Dec 12, 2017
280
New Jersey
Clive said:
For me the games are just such epic journeys for their time. Flying across vast oceans, over snowy landscapes, deep valleys and massive enemy fortresses fighting hordes of enemies with gameplay which felt like nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
When Zwei was released in 1996, it was pretty amazing. Almost no other games before or since had the same frantic gameplay, being an on rails shooter that you also had to watch your surroundings in 360 degrees. Star fox 64 would not come out for another year.
I also didn't know anyone with a Sega Saturn to play it, and I think that was the main reason the series never seems to have found more that a cult audience.
I enjoyed Orta, but did not feel the need to beat it on the highest difficulty.
 
Jonneh

Jonneh

Good Vibes Gaming
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,538
UK
I came into this planned to lecture you with paragraphs on why Panzer Dragoon is so special but you guys have done an amazing job.

A lot of it comes down to the vibe. Nothing quite looks or sounds like Panzer Dragoon, Sega made an unparalleled world for this franchise that's instantly recognisable. If you play me a few notes of any Panzer Dragoon song I reckon I could get it instantly. Panzer Dragoon Saga let the franchise slow down and truly relish in this vibe, it's such an outstanding RPG that needs to return. The core games are equally impressive but the pace is like a rollercoaster. Think Star Fox...but in 360 degrees and with a much faster pace. I honestly prefer Panzer Dragoon to any Star Fox game.
 
No Depth

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,397
-Uniquely evocative art design, particularly in the early throes of rough 3D visuals. Greatly helped with transforming the weaknesses of the technology into visuals that allow for some personal interpretation.
-Simple but engaging game design. A rail shooter spectacle anyone can easily adopt on an alien world with branching paths, and an obscure narrative that allows the imagination room to fill in some gaps.
-Sequels further pushed the design and visuals in a direction that built on the strengths of the above. Ultimately even transitioning into an RPG unlike anything still made(in terms of battle and exploration) that sadly deserved a second life on a modern system.
 
Virtua King

Virtua King

Member
Dec 29, 2017
3,985
Simply put: every game in the series is incredible. The atmosphere, art style, gameplay, music, Panzer Dragoon is magnificent in all aspects, and, imo, Panzer Dragoon Saga is the best jrpg of all-time. One of the main reasons why I want a Panzer Dragoon collection is because I wish for more people to be able to experience these games.



Just the very best.
 
mute

mute

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,256
Everything except Saga plays kinda like Star Fox with art, world, music, and everything just standing out and is amazing.
 
Last edited:
Tambini

Tambini

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,423
Panzer Dragoon Orta for the original xbox is very obtainable, playable on 360 and has a port of the original in the bonus features
 
Huey

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,314
They are absolutely not too outdated to be enjoyable! They stand up tremendously as - I feel - the greatest rail shooters of all time. And Team Andromeda's artistic influence reverberates through the industry to this day, mostly notably through Team Ico and Fumito Ueda. As you've already discovered, they are some of the greatest OST's in the history of the medium - it still boggles my mind that on Saturn launch day, I booted up Panzer Dragoon to hear that opening theme, and then that level 1 music, my God.

Each game is a self-contained story in a single world. The first two are quite abstractly told, though Zwei less so and Saga has a full story. PD1 completely blindsided everyone - a launch title that looked and sounded like that on an underpowered system was a miracle. Then you factor in the art design, and I still feel like it never got the props it deserved for how utterly revolutionary it was. Very simple though - basic attack, charge attack. Zwei really built on everything that was great about PD1 and added a lot of more "game-y" elements - super attack, dragon evolution, more variation to the gameplay, a more fleshed out story, better visuals, and branching paths for multiple playthroughs. Orta is really great - but I've always felt like it had lost a bit in the Team's transition to smilebit and felt a bit more like a cover band. That's probably an unreasonably comparison, and I still absolutely adore Orta (I bought an OG Xbox for it). I sort of think of Saga as a different beast - it is definitely related but it changed genres and playstyles so substantially that it's difficult to directly compare it.

If pressed, I would rank the shooters as PD Zwei - PD1 - PD Orta. Again, Saga is sort of its own entity.

Gifs, glorious, wonderful gifs:

tumblr_nhr9dc7hiz1sg3g3so1_400.gif
tumblr_p0gz3ocTL91uohygqo1_500.gif
tumblr_nof2qjsBvj1r7sijxo1_400.gif
tumblr_ol6x6eRtPZ1v6pzwto1_500.gif
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
Mazzle said:
As of right now I'm listening to some of the Panzer Dragoon OST (from all over the series) and man what a great Soundtrack. I'm getting a late 80s Anime vibe at some points.
It wouldn't be the first game I would buy because of the music...
Point is, that I would like te hear a bit about the series, what made it special, if it's one big story or if every game stands for itself, where to start or if the games are too outdated to be enjoyable.

I never had a Saturn back then (I was a kid and who even had a Saturn besides Japan) but do buy old games and consoles every now and then if I'm lucky and the price is right.
So I would be pleased to hear what you have to say and maybe there are games nowadays that have similarities.

Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

  1. These games had amazing soundtracks. They don't really sound like other games.
  2. The art style is distinctive. Moebius did the concept art and some of the designs. They hide the shortcomings of the Sega Saturn well.
  3. Panzer Dragoon's world is unique, both wonderful and horrifying. It's post-apocalyptic but, as Ishmae1 said, not really like other post-apocalyptic settings. You can see some influences from Nausicaa but it's quite different really.
  4. There's a nice gameplay leap between the original PD and Zwei, but I actually think Orta was a step backwards. The pacing is not as frantic as Zwei until the end of the game.
  5. To me, Panzer Dragoon Saga is the greatest JRPG of its generation, maybe of all time. The story is simple but touching, and it develops the Panzer Dragoon world beautifully. And Team Andromeda took the rail shooter mechanics, switched it up, and delivered some interesting combat.
3D graphics from that age have not withstood the test of time but I'd still play through these again. Saga is magical, in particular. Orta was one of the best-looking games of its generation and has held up a bit better:



That music and setting, it brings back feelings for sure.
 
Silvergun-Blue

Silvergun-Blue

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,963
Saga has one of the best turn based rpg battle systems ever. It revolves around you positioning your dragon to either the sides or front/back of the enemy in order to exploit weak areas or safe areas. The enemy will consequently try to manoeuvre it's position to suit it best, so with a particularly agile enemy, it can be almost like a ballet.

Attacks use a recharging gauge, much like Chrono Trigger/FF VII etc, but it stops charging when you move, so position yourself efficiently and don't just move all over the place. The gauge is also split into three sections allowing you to save up for multiple attacks when you do finally get into that sweet spot. Certain powerful berserk(magic) attacks need multiple sections to use.

When you do attack you can use either Edge's gun, or the dragons homing lasers. The gun is useful for picking out an individual target or weak spot, where as the laser hits multiple enemies. It's also worth noting that as well as having a pretty standard rpg style menu for selecting attacks, both the gun and lasers can be activated with individual button presses much like Persona 5. This really speeds combat along.

Finally, possibly the games coolest feature is that after a certain point early on, you gain the ability to morph your dragon to favour attack, defence, agility, or spirit (berserk) It has an incredibly awesome effect you can see in this video.


Fun fact, Panzer Dragoon Saga was what I spent my first ever pay from my first ever job on! That turned out to be one hell of an investment.

I'll leave you with my favourite piece of music from the game, Pure Blood Seed.
 
hlhbk

hlhbk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
I have never played through any of the games other than Saga. That being said Saga is one of my favorite games of all time and the best RPG I have ever played.

Would it be worth playing through the rest? I am not a huge fan of rail shooters but loved the story and world of PDS.
 
Diarrhea Day-Lewis

Diarrhea Day-Lewis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,783
First two are solid on rails shooters, Saga is a criminally ignored rpg.

Since the source code is lost and the Saturn is hard to emulate just buy a 4in1 memory card google from there how to play Saga without paying $500+
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,604
PD is a solid rail shooter series, with one game going into the RPG direction. Though its a very short and light RPG.

Orta is a rail shooter again, but with PDS influences such as the side movement. What made this series special is the fact that PD1 is kind of the first great Saturn game that showed what the machine was capable of. Zwei was an evolution that had better graphics and gameplay and Saga had this sort of gameplay locked into an RPG which was at the time very impressive. This series is comparable to Team ICO games. It has its own unique universe with a very distinct civilization and its own language.

I think Zwei is the best of the bunch. I simply loved every second of it.
 
kvetcha

kvetcha

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,835
They're artistically, mechanically, and narratively singular titles in genres overflowing with sameness. There's nothing else like them, and there may never be again.
 
Mandos

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,258
Yeah, own a Saturn and zwei, dying to try saga, but not willing to fork over the cash
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,837
Vice City
can't really add much here, but: i didn't get to finally own a saturn & play them till a few years ago, and i can back up what's being said here & also that they hold up incredibly well. the alien environment - both the amazing designs & incredible OST's - create something incredible that countless games in the time since have failed at: making a world i want to revisit.
 

Deleted member 31133

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
4,155
Classic series. I'm actually shocked Sega hasn't brought the series back. The last game was the fantastic Orta way back in 2002. 16 years ago!!!!!
 

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
Panzer Dragoon Saga specifically is one of the best RPGs ever made and I consider it possibly the most underrated overlooked game of all time. (On second thought, I wouldn't consider it "underrated" since it actually is very well-regarded by the few people who have played it.)

It is a must-play if you have even a passing interest in RPGs (or really just in games in general lol). The rest of the series is an excellent and consistent set of rail shooters, arguably the best-in-class for that genre and almost certainly the most atmospheric and visionary.
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,604
Yeah its a shame that series like these aren't being released for VR. Rez proved that it works extremely well.

Mandos said:
Yeah, own a Saturn and zwei, dying to try saga, but not willing to fork over the cash
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

JP ver. is very playable. Dunno about nowadays but it used to be dirt cheap. I beat the first 2 discs without consulting a guide even, I think.
 
hlhbk

hlhbk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
RKR said:
Yeah its a shame that series like these aren't being released for VR. Rez proved that it works extremely well.



JP ver. is very playable. Dunno about nowadays but it used to be dirt cheap. I beat the first 2 discs without consulting a guide even, I think.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

How did you understand it?
 
hlhbk

hlhbk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
I have wished for years we could get a PDS 2 but I don't think it'll ever happen.
 
Filipus

Filipus

Prophet of Regret
Avenger
Dec 7, 2017
5,148
Kind off-topic but how was crimson dragon for a fan of Panzer Dragoon?
I know the game got destroyed by reviews when it came out but would love to hear your guys opinion.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Filipus said:
Kind off-topic but how was crimson dragon for a fan of Panzer Dragoon?
I know the game got destroyed by reviews when it came out but would love to hear your guys opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That game had no soul. It just felt phoned in to me and lacked any of the engrossing atmosphere the Panzer Dragoon series delivers.

I've played all the PD games, and still own em all, as they are very near and dear to me. Most everyone already covered why they're so great, so I'll just say to the OP, I'm happy you're looking to play these gems.
 
Tamath

Tamath

Member
Oct 31, 2017
746
Vienna, Austria
To paraphrase Cochese from The Warriors, the PD series is... Magic. A whole lotta magic.

1, 2 and Orta are best in class rail shooters elevated by an interesting world setting and a unique vision regarding culture and technology. The only downside to them is that they hint at a world so rich that you wish you could explore it at greater depth than what a rail shooter can provide.

Thank God Team Andromeda thought the same way and gave us Saga, too. I'm not a l massive (J)RPG fan but the battle system is really unique and engaging, and you get to freely explore the world on foot and in dragonflight... It was truly a special game to teenage me.

That Sega somehow lost the source code for Saga remains one of gaming's biggest travesties, at least to me.
 
IronicSonic

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
Beat on-rails shooter/RPG of its respectives generations.
 
solari

solari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,864
AZ, USA
Man, I have always had an interest in this game but never had a Saturn until a couple years ago. After hearing the music posted here, it's jumped on the list on the must-buy list.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.