Aphyosemion australe Spawning Issues

[gtbROX]

Hi all,
I'm currently keeping a group of orange australes (2 males, 3 females) that I got from steve butcher on aquabid, in a 5gallon tank heavily planted with java moss and riccia. I have been feeding them live fruitflies and freeze-dried hikari bloodworms. I have also been changing the water every other day to keep the nitrogenous wastes down. My current problem is that none of the females seem to be in the mood to spawn with the males; they just seem to avoid the males, and the males seem to chase them away. Aside from the abstinence issues, they seem to be healthy and fine, in terms of eating and behavior. The tank has a really bright light, but since I have a giant canopy of riccia at the top, more than half of the tank is shaded. I plan on testing the water hardness to see if that's the issue, but I have a theory that maybe they won't spawn because they're all quite young. They look pretty small to me, an inch and a half, but the males have their full coloration and the lyretail finnage. Thanks in advance.

[stormhawk]

Young australes tend not to spawn willingly at first. They are ready for spawning only when the females are filled with eggs/roe. Initially the males will lack fertility due to their young age. The best males for breeding are the dominant ones, especially the largest.

The presence of multiple males does not help because they will spend their time establishing dominance over one another and over the females. The best is to use a single male with several females. This will ultimately require several breeding tanks but it is a necessity if the tank has only a small group in it. In a crowded tank, the aggression is muted somewhat. Even among females, they are prone to squabbling over food and territory.

A softwater tank with a pH around 6 should be sufficient for these fish. I found in the past that after a slight water change, they will begin to spawn. This is of course, provided the females are egg laden. It might be wise for you to house the females separately for conditioning, and then placing them in a spawning tank specifically for this purpose. The diet you are feeding them is fine, but I would try to obtain some grindalworms as a supplement, since you can gut-load those with high quality fish food that the australes would otherwise ignore.

5 gallon tank seems a tad bit small for them. I have no comments on the quality of Steve's fish, but it might be wise to contact him and ask for the water parameters in his breeding tanks. That might get you off on the right start.

[gtbROX]

Young australes tend not to spawn willingly at first. They are ready for spawning only when the females are filled with eggs/roe. Initially the males will lack fertility due to their young age. The best males for breeding are the dominant ones, especially the largest.

The presence of multiple males does not help because they will spend their time establishing dominance over one another and over the females. The best is to use a single male with several females. This will ultimately require several breeding tanks but it is a necessity if the tank has only a small group in it. In a crowded tank, the aggression is muted somewhat. Even among females, they are prone to squabbling over food and territory.

A softwater tank with a pH around 6 should be sufficient for these fish. I found in the past that after a slight water change, they will begin to spawn. This is of course, provided the females are egg laden. It might be wise for you to house the females separately for conditioning, and then placing them in a spawning tank specifically for this purpose. The diet you are feeding them is fine, but I would try to obtain some grindalworms as a supplement, since you can gut-load those with high quality fish food that the australes would otherwise ignore.

5 gallon tank seems a tad bit small for them. I have no comments on the quality of Steve's fish, but it might be wise to contact him and ask for the water parameters in his breeding tanks. That might get you off on the right start.

Thanks for the input, it gives me a lot of factors to think about and work on. I'm not sure about my water parameters, but I get the feeling that Steve's water is probably soft RO water since he does breed all kinds of aphyosemion/Fp genus killifish so I'll try and test my water then find a way to lower the pH and hardness. Is peat or dried oak leaf a suitable way to lower both pH and water hardness?

Also, a lot of what you said about the behavior of young A. australe seems to be true for my fish because I've been seeing the females act extremely aggressive towards each other, flaring gills, rushing into each other, and I've been seeing the males flare at each other and the females. Also, something really interesting that I just noticed today but had not seen when I first got my fish is that the females have all been developing a light red tint on the upper and lower parts of the caudal/anal/dorsal fins. Basically, a slight shade of red where normally males would have vivid red or orange coloration. Also, as for separating my fish, I really want to do that, but at the moment I have no space. I think I'll try and obtain half gallon to gallon betta conditioning jars if I can find them. I'll also try and set up 2 grindal cultures in a week or two.

The 5 gallon is too small in my opinion so I do plan on moving a male and female australe to another tank once I find a suitable one. Would the australes be more inclined to spawn if I put even more plants into the tank? The top is already 60% covered in a 1-2 inch layer of riccia and there are 2 big clumps java moss that tank up half the tank and extend from the bottom touching the riccia.

[stormhawk]

Hi Larry,

Yes peat or dried oak leaves should suffice to lower the pH and soften the water. With leaves they should be thoroughly washed before use. I microwave them in a container of water, following what Ronnie taught me.

Sometimes too much plant cover may prevent the pair from spawning. A slightly larger tank should suffice and once they are ready, they will spawn. Young pairs will produce mostly infertile eggs and quality will peak up once the males are mature enough. Your current plant cover is sufficient I think. It's always good to be able to see the fish once in awhile, otherwise you wouldn't know if they're dead or alive or sick even.

There was an incident in the past during one of the killie group's gatherings here in Singapore, back in 2004. A pair of chocolate australes spawned in a small photo tank about a minute of being introduced in that tank.

The pair spawning in the gravel while in the photo tank


Adult male chocolate australe

The pair were bred by Ronnie Lee aka Ronwill, a fellow moderator and member of this forum.

[gtbROX]

Hi Larry,

Yes peat or dried oak leaves should suffice to lower the pH and soften the water. With leaves they should be thoroughly washed before use. I microwave them in a container of water, following what Ronnie taught me.

Sometimes too much plant cover may prevent the pair from spawning. A slightly larger tank should suffice and once they are ready, they will spawn. Young pairs will produce mostly infertile eggs and quality will peak up once the males are mature enough. Your current plant cover is sufficient I think. It's always good to be able to see the fish once in awhile, otherwise you wouldn't know if they're dead or alive or sick even.

There was an incident in the past during one of the killie group's gatherings here in Singapore, back in 2004. A pair of chocolate australes spawned in a small photo tank about a minute of being introduced in that tank.

The pair spawning in the gravel while in the photo tank


Adult male chocolate australe

The pair were bred by Ronnie Lee aka Ronwill, a fellow moderator and member of this forum.

Hey, thanks! I'll try and find a larger aquarium or maybe a separate aquarium for one of the pairs. I'll also look into getting some peat or dried oak leaves, that microwave idea is really smart lol.
And the fins on the australes are AMAZING...If I manage to breed my current australes I would want to selectively breed for longer trailing fin rays on the top/bottom of the caudals.

[RonWill]

Larry, welcome to the colorful world of killie-keeping and we're glad to know you're attempting to breed those AUS. I'm a tad busy these days but a few quickies...

Your fishes are young but will breed in conducive environment. Reduce water level to half tank... it gives them the idea that their little pond is drying up, plus it increases the water:air ratio hence improving dissolved oxygen in water. Add a generous wad of moss that span from surface to bottom and expect infertile eggs till they get the hang of things.

Full trailing caudal extensions in mature AUS is only possible when ample space is available....and yes, it's quite a sight to behold.

Side note: I microwave everything from sterilizing used spawning mops, peat (for incubation), 'cooking' oak leaves , to anything else I can think of.

[gtbROX]

Larry, welcome to the colorful world of killie-keeping and we're glad to know you're attempting to breed those AUS. I'm a tad busy these days but a few quickies...

Your fishes are young but will breed in conducive environment. Reduce water level to half tank... it gives them the idea that their little pond is drying up, plus it increases the water:air ratio hence improving dissolved oxygen in water. Add a generous wad of moss that span from surface to bottom and expect infertile eggs till they get the hang of things.

Full trailing caudal extensions in mature AUS is only possible when ample space is available....and yes, it's quite a sight to behold.

Side note: I microwave everything from sterilizing used spawning mops, peat (for incubation), 'cooking' oak leaves , to anything else I can think of.

Thanks Ron! If I lower the water level to half the tank, should I make it gradual? Or should I just siphon out the water to that level immediately. I use an overhead filter so I could easily shift the hood a bit such that the water gradually evaporates away. And I'll keep that microwaving tip in mind =]

[gtbROX]

To update, I've been letting the water level slowly drop by evaporation (didn't want to scare/shock the fish) by uncovering my OHFilter. I've been catching the alpha male spawning with females randomly, but whenever he sees me (if i stand too close to the tank) or if he feels vibrations he immediately stops spawning and scares the female away and comes towards me, sort of like a dog lol...
I'm going to try observing the tank from afar, and spending less time close to the tank so that the alpha male will spawn more. The other male is still kind of small and young so I haven't seen him spawning much at all, but that's okay because I will have a spawning container for him and one of the females when he looks ready to spawn. Thanks for the help guys! =D

[RonWill]

Larry, I'd be hard-pressed to make whoopie if you have your nose right up my bedroom window. Give them their much needed privacy for tender moments and in the mean time, prepare what's necessary to raise fry... there's no such thing as too much baby food!!

...and of course, keep us updated on your progress. Good luck and stop being a voyeur.

[gtbROX]

Larry, I'd be hard-pressed to make whoopie if you have your nose right up my bedroom window. Give them their much needed privacy for tender moments and in the mean time, prepare what's necessary to raise fry... there's no such thing as too much baby food!!

...and of course, keep us updated on your progress. Good luck and stop being a voyeur.

Lol yeahh I thought about that and realized they probably didn't like me watching them, but I couldn't help it. =P
I've been culturing some cyclops that I found swimming around in my java moss so hopefully I'll have lots of them by the time I start seeing fry. Thanks again!

[stormhawk]

You might want to acquire some microworm/bananaworm/walterworm cultures along with Paramecium etc, if you can find any near where you live or from an aquarist society. Any killie keeper worth his salt will have a bunch of live food cultures around.

As for the needed privacy, you can use a black trash bag wrapped around the tank, with you peeking in to check maybe once a day or so during feeding time. This is used often by breeders who want to give their fish time to settle down and produce eggs and fry. I've seen discus breeders cover up the front glass of breeding tanks with newspapers and it works. Lights should go on as per normal however, so the fish can find their food and still have some sort of privacy. Sometimes, the less the interference from the aquarist, the better it aids their spawning.

[gtbROX]

You might want to acquire some microworm/bananaworm/walterworm cultures along with Paramecium etc, if you can find any near where you live or from an aquarist society. Any killie keeper worth his salt will have a bunch of live food cultures around.

As for the needed privacy, you can use a black trash bag wrapped around the tank, with you peeking in to check maybe once a day or so during feeding time. This is used often by breeders who want to give their fish time to settle down and produce eggs and fry. I've seen discus breeders cover up the front glass of breeding tanks with newspapers and it works. Lights should go on as per normal however, so the fish can find their food and still have some sort of privacy. Sometimes, the less the interference from the aquarist, the better it aids their spawning.

I should be able to get some microworm and grindal cultures by next week via aquabid. I think if there are any fry in my tank already, they should be able to last a couple days before my microworms arrive because there is a small colony of cyclops growing in the tank. Today, as I was feeding the fish, I saw a clear egg (it was an egg for sure, looked kind of like a zebra danio egg) drifting down from the riccia and landed among the gravel. Is a clear egg a good or bad sign? I didn't see any fungus on it.
Oh yeah, and the males are starting to develop the fin extensions that Ron was talking about, it's so pretty =]

[stormhawk]

Well, as long as the eggs don't fungus you're pretty much set Larry. Just cross your fingers and hope for the best.

By the way, those tail streamers will not last long in a tank with multiple males as they will fight and usually some fin nipping will occur. If you do wish to raise a "show" specimen for your family and friends, it has to be isolated from the others and fed reasonably well. The use of a 20 gallon tank aka 2 feet tank with DIY dividers will be very useful to conserve space and raise a showpiece male within the same tank as the rest.

[gtbROX]

Well, as long as the eggs don't fungus you're pretty much set Larry. Just cross your fingers and hope for the best.

By the way, those tail streamers will not last long in a tank with multiple males as they will fight and usually some fin nipping will occur. If you do wish to raise a "show" specimen for your family and friends, it has to be isolated from the others and fed reasonably well. The use of a 20 gallon tank aka 2 feet tank with DIY dividers will be very useful to conserve space and raise a showpiece male within the same tank as the rest.

Lol my apartment people and my family would kill me if I got another tank, but I will try to think of some way to separate the males as the alpha male always chases the other one away. Luckily the alpha male has the better finnage because it usually occupies the area towards the front of the tank so I always get to see him. The beta male is usually towards the back but he does have a big area of space there and is protected by the java moss and riccia, and the females just swim everywhere. I might end up giving the beta male away to my friend who wants to try killifish because my 5g tank is too full right now, and it would be nice for it to have its own tank where it won't be targeted by a bigger male.
On a side note, has anyone tried using green tea (the one you drink) packets for fish tanks? Just wondering because I heard about it in class today for fish and was so surprised...lol

[stormhawk]

Green tea sachets may work if they are meant for fishes. Sometimes the manufacturers may add in additives that may cause problems for the fish. Safe for humans doesn't necessarily mean safe for fish.

Besides, the use of aquarium peat does the same job, or that of old and rotting oak leaves in your case. A slow and steady rate of softening the water is more safer when you're dealing with some finicky fish.

[RonWill]

On a side note, has anyone tried using green tea (the one you drink) packets for fish tanks? Just wondering because I heard about it in class today for fish and was so surprised...

What did they say about tea and fishes? In the past, I've tried Oolong chinese Tea, Earl Grey sachets and Japanese Green Tea on my orchids (Phalaenopsis species) and dumping some into my tanks. What was it supposed to do again??

Guys, what's the update on AUS? Egg, fry, new additions??

[gtbROX]

What did they say about tea and fishes? In the past, I've tried Oolong chinese Tea, Earl Grey sachets and Japanese Green Tea on my orchids (Phalaenopsis species) and dumping some into my tanks. What was it supposed to do again??

Guys, what's the update on AUS? Egg, fry, new additions??

The usual about tannins and lower pH/hardness, but also something about antioxidants. I'm still iffy about doing the green tea thing, i'd rather oak leaves, catappa, or just peat. Also, I'm seeing quite a bit of spawning behavior so far, but no fry yet. They're all getting bigger, and the trailing fin rays on the males are getting longer =D