I started out my new garden by putting out 10# of 13-13-13 and tilling it in. As I planted either transplants or seeds I sprinkled a very small bit of the 13-13-13 in the holes. We've been getting lots of rain and the plants are doing good, though the grass is getting bad, too. The vegetables could probably use some good sunshine now and I'm confident it is coming. I might mention here that not only is this a new garden, but I'm not a seasoned gardener, just tomato plants and a few other things in my past. :)

Some of the plants are approaching or will be approaching a growth stage where I need to side dress them with fertilizer. I'm envisioning "side dressing" to be scraping a shallow furrow beside the plants, several inches away from the stems and putting a pinch or two of fertilizer in the furrow. OR...simply lightly broadcasting some fertilizer along the row or around the plant and lightly scratching it in. ???????

Ok, so here comes the part about alfalfa... I would like to get away from chemical fertilizers and it seems alfalfa pellets would be a good choice. With all of the persistent pesticides used on pastures and hayfields now I'm very hesitant to use manures. So, how much alfalfa should I put down for the plants? We're talking tomatoes, okra, squash, cucumbers, melons, and peppers. Any guidance on amounts and technique would be most helpful. Also, is there any other amendments that feed the soil that I should add?

Thanks!
Ed

Unless you have had your soil tested and it is low on nitrogen, I would skip the alfalfa pellets.

Nitrogen is good for bushy green plants - not what you want if you are attempting to have a vegetable crop this year.

Thanks for the feedback, Daisy. I had my soil tested at Auburn University and the following is the fertilizer recommendation:

"Per 100 square feet apply 1 pound 13-13-13 at planting and sidedress with 1.2 pounds 13-13-13. Additional nitrogen can be applied to stimulate more growth."

I applied 10 pounds of 13-13-13 to a 1000 square foot area and with the report I'm thinking I need to sidedress with more. I'm basically a beginner and trying to figure out how I'm supposed to fertilize things. The plants appear to be growing well, but we have been getting lots of rain and I attest the abundant growth to that...along with the abundant growth of grass.<groan>

So with the fertilizer recommendation from Auburn regarding the sidedressing, what should I do? None of the plants look nitrogen deficient...nice and green.

Thanks,
Ed

One of the fallacies of your thinking is that alfalfa won't have chemicals but manure will. Manure is a source of nitrogen and phosphorus but you have added Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium in your 13-13-13 fertilizer (which I assume is chemical based).

I assume you laid down a good base in the first place by digging in a lot of compost, garden soil and yes, manure. All that fertilizer won't do you a bit of good if you are adding it to a mountain of sand (that's my problem).

Skip the bunny pellets. I can't imagine that the 13-13-13 isn't supplying all the Nitrogen that your garden needs. The 'growth' that you will be stimulating is a lot of pretty green leaves at the expense of fruits. And you may have enough fertilizer to last awhile anyway, depending upon the size of your garden.

It is possible to over do it.

Great looking garden, Ed.

DaisyI said:
I assume you laid down a good base in the first place by digging in a lot of compost, garden soil and yes, manure.
All that fertilizer won't do you a bit of good if you are adding it to a mountain of sand (that's my problem).

Interesting point, Daisy.
I've read every word about this garden, and still don't have any of the information that would be important to me.

Like Daisy, I'm in bottomless sand, and the amendments I'm adding are mostly to promote moisture retention.

Of course, in an unusual year like this one, you could plant anything, without any soil prep and get a crop... Until the rain stops.

As long as its raining, I wouldn't add anything except mulch. Gotta stop walking in mud...

Speaking of which...
What is the soil type?

If you go out and dig a hole, does it all stick to the shovel? Or are you in the sand?

And...
When I prep the garden as Daisy suggests, I add no extra fertilizer. Its unnecessary.

But... Yeah, unless you are in the sandhills, you should not be doing anything out there.

Do you know what happens when you walk on wet soil?
Bricks.

...or, you could skip the chemical fertilizers, buy the alfalfa pellets, feed the pellets to a few rabbits and put the bunny manure directly into the garden. That's what I do.

Daisy, regarding chemicals in manure vs. alfalfa. Everything we use is tainted with chemicals, that's pretty much a given these days. It's the ability to do long term damage to the garden that concerns me. Immediately around me are about 80 acres of hayfield (once row-crop). Three years ago it was sprayed with Surmount pesticide (a herbicide). I've see a big change in edge of field vegetation and even a 70' tall "field" pecan tree standing in the middle of one haypatch, that died from Surmount being sprayed on the grass surrounding the tree. The main active ingredient in Surmount is "picloram"...you might want to check this article out..."Killer Compost". It's use is widespread and talking with some farmers they simply leave it up to the spraying companies to spray "whatever it needs". If the farmer bales his hay for sale...then you really can't keep track of where it's being fed. The herbicide is still potent within the manure. The manure is still good....for spreading on hayfields that have already been sprayed with picloram but I surely wouldn't want it in my garden. I'm sure alfalfa has different chemicals in it, too...probably more insecticides than herbicides, though. I'm pretty confident alfalfa doesn't have a poison in the class of Surmount in it, though, being as Surmount will kill alfalfa.

As for laying down a good base...no. I was rushing to get some seed planted, and hoping the newly tilled soil would carry me through the summer. I know that compost and mulching will improve many things and my intentions are to get that working, but it will be when I have the time and energy...my actual goal for heavy organic additions is for this fall if things work out with me. My more immediate plans is to get some buckwheat seed and start growing it around the perimeter and in empty spaces in the garden. Mow it and use for mulch and replant it. I'm growing a couple of half-rows of cowpeas, figuring I'll turn that in or leave it laying where I mow it. But, currently, I have what I have and went into the season figuring this was a year to at least get something growing to keep the interest and enthusiasm going. I intend to proceed on to getting the soil in better shape. So yes, I do have a plan and I will be trying to feed and enrich the soil. This is why I asked about using alfalfa rather than the petro fertilizer...we've gotta start somewhere. My goal is to turn it into a no-till garden or at least a minimally-tilled garden and as "organic" as possible.

I am confused on something you said, though. You asked if I dug in compost, garden soil, and manure. Garden soil? Is this something different from the soil that is already there?

I've got no arguments with what you're saying about more nitrogen creating lush vegetation rather than fruit. I ran into that years ago when I tilled in a bunch of cow manure in the garden and planted a couple of rows of running butterbeans...I had the prettiest, lushest vines growing to the top of some 7' trellises...but never did see a bean...but, that was a very bad year which ended in drought so the vines *might* have produced a bean or two towards the end but they never got the chance. In hindsight, and a little more education about things, I realize the manure was definitely the wrong thing to add for the beans.

Below is a copy of my soil test report. I tilled in 10 pounds of the recommended 13-13-13 chemical fertilizer on the 1000 square foot garden which works out to the 1 pound per 100 sq ft recommendation. The report states to follow up with a sidedressing of 1.2 pounds. As it is, I've applied half of the recommended amount of fertilizer. Things seem to be growing well, plants are green and appear to be robust. From what I understand, sidedressing is usually recommended when plants start budding, vining, etc., but at that time I seem to recall that they need more potassium and potash than they do nitrogen. I'll follow your lead and hold off any more fertilizer and see how things do.

As for the chemical fertilizer that I have left over...I'm not keen on continuing to use it. I've got some friends that will take it off of my hands if I decide to forego it. But yes, I've got plenty of it left.

I appreciate your time and thoughts on this, Daisy. Trust me, I need all the help that I can get.
Ed

ETA: The #1 soil group denotes the soil as being "Sandy".

porkpal said:Great looking garden, Ed.

Thanks! I just hope it doesn't drown!!!

Ed - I say go for the alfalfa. I can see that you're trying to do some remediation as well as grow some crops. You've done some homework. I'd be a little concerned about the 13-13-13 recommendation. If you get the chance, pick up "The Intelligent Gardener" - lots to absorb.

Your soil "test" report doesn't help.
I made the mistake of getting one of my garden's soil tested once.
Worse then useless.
There are tests that will tell you all the micro nutrients and everything, but still, nothing about the health of the soil.
More and more, its the organic material and the microfaunna that matter.

Yes, picloran is out there, and those terrible neonicitoids... But, chemical fertilizers aren't how I would start.

Personally, I just haul in horse poop and hope for the best.

I think Daisy has framed beds and brings in soil to avoid using her desert alkaline existing material.

You still haven't described the soil you have.

Here's a small section of my sand.

Hi Ed, sounds like you are doing lots of research on how to improve your soil as well as grow your plants.

I use a lot of alfalfa pellets both in my own garden and in the school garden that I am lead volunteer at. I've found that it's best to add the alfalfa as an amendment before planting, because as Daisy points out, it is a good source of slow-release nitrogen as well as feeding the soil microbes and adding wonderful organic materials.

I have a very small garden, and many of my plants at home are in pots. At the school, we have raised beds, but the "good" soil we bought to fill the beds was still a large proportion of sand, which is the native "soil" here. Since we are using the raised beds over and over again, we need to amend with the best possible stuff, and the alfalfa has kept the soil producing well for 5 years now.

At the school, we amend at the beginning of each school year with 25lb. of alfalfa pellets for a 4ft. X 8ft raised bed. Dig it in thoroughly, water thoroughly, and then plant the next week. When we plant new cool-weather crops at the beginning of the new semester in January, we also add alfalfa pellets at about 2 cups per plant, when we're planting transplants. At home, I use about two cupfuls per plant for veggie plants. I put a handful or two in a pot if I am re-potting anything.

All that being said, I would still side-dress your rows with a couple of handfuls of alfalfa pellets now because the small proportion of nitrogen in them won't do all that much to stimulate additional growth, but sure will give the soil microbes a big boost. When you buy the alfalfa, be sure you get 100% alfalfa - horse food in 50lb. bags. Don't buy rabbit food, it has vitamins and other additives and is a LOT more expensive.

Also, cover the pellets as you go along, and water thoroughly after side-dressing to encourage them to break down quickly. We attracted a wild rabbit to our school garden the first time we added them, and had to spend $200 on rabbit fencing to keep him and his family from coming back. Since then we've buried the pellets, watered thoroughly and haven't had any more bunny problems.

I like alfalfa pellets and use them frequently. I've used them around my iris. Roses love them. I've put 2-3 handfuls around each tomato. When the pellets break down from water I work them into the surface. Google Alfalfa pellets in the Garden and read the benefits. I recommend them The pellets are available here without additives.

stone said:

Interesting point, Daisy.
I've read every word about this garden, and still don't have any of the information that would be important to me.

Like Daisy, I'm in bottomless sand, and the amendments I'm adding are mostly to promote moisture retention.

Of course, in an unusual year like this one, you could plant anything, without any soil prep and get a crop... Until the rain stops.

As long as its raining, I wouldn't add anything except mulch. Gotta stop walking in mud...

Speaking of which...
What is the soil type?

If you go out and dig a hole, does it all stick to the shovel? Or are you in the sand?

And...
When I prep the garden as Daisy suggests, I add no extra fertilizer. Its unnecessary.

But... Yeah, unless you are in the sandhills, you should not be doing anything out there.

Do you know what happens when you walk on wet soil?
Bricks.

stone, what information do you need from me. I'll be glad to share whatever I know. I've posted my soil report from AU in a reply to Daisy a message or two above if that will help.

I'm sitting on probably 12-18 inches of topsoil before hitting a red clay subsoil. The most shallow subsoil is in the southeast corner of it where the melons are growing. The garden is on the very top of a large hill. It is situated between the top terraces of what was a row-crop field years ago. There is a very, very slight southern slope to the garden area. Twenty years ago cattle grazed the area and hay was baled from it, then it was just hayfield. Probably ten years ago we started mowing it with the lawnmower and added the area to our yard. During the times of grazing/haying chemical fertilizer and chicken manure were used on it at times along with the occasional liming. Soil in our area tends to be mostly acidic. The predominant grass in our area is bahia, though apparently there is a good bit of crabgrass or a crabgrass look-a-like if I can go by what is sprouting throughout my garden.

The soil is sandy, from what the soil report stated. When it's damp/moist (not wet) I can make a ball, pinch it and it will fall apart in pieces...not simply crumble into a pile of sand. It can be tilled into a smooth texture. Nothing has been tilled into the soil as an organic amendment yet. The only mulching has been pine straw beneath the tomato plants.

I understand manure will supply the nutrients that the soil needs, but I do have my hesitancy in using it. I was hoping to replace the manure with the alfalfa pellets along with adding leaves and shredded OG. I may have to opt for chicken manure, though. There's the possibility of some horse manure, too.

Yeah, bricks. A hundred years ago (it seems) as a kid I went to a field looking for arrowheads. The field had been bottom plowed while wet. Talk about gigantic red bricks laying everywhere...it was almost hazardous to walk/jump across the clods. It had to have taken at least a couple of years to get that soil back in half-decent shape! Yeah, don't compress wet soil.

Thanks for the feedback, stone, I need it.
Ed

Sandy red clay tells me what I want to know.
Lucky you!
That's the good stuff.
You can grow anything you want, and it takes little effort.
I begged and pleaded with the real estate agent to sell me some of that.
Wouldn't do it. Nuthin but white sand.

Garden Soil: It comes in a bag (or by the yard) to be mixed with your native soil up to 1:1 ratio. The one I used this year is made up of forest products, sphagnum peat moss, fertilizer and a wetting agent. It is ground too fine to see exactly what the forest products are.

The compost I used was mostly rice hulls.

I watch the Big Box stores and start stockpiling whatever is cheapest in the fall. Between the fall and spring sales, I am pretty well set for the summer.

I use time release fertilizer about halfway through the summer.

Alfalfa pellets are great used as a top dressing but buried, they could cause too rapid a breakdown, so raising soil temperature and killing all the good bugs you are trying to feed. If you decide to use it, sprinkle a handfull around your plants and water the pellets in.

But, back to your soil report. The key thing I saw is that your Ph is 5.5. Most plants do well in a range of 5.5 - 7.0 but anything outside of this range will make nutrients in the soil unavailable to the plants. Everything you have added so far is lowering the Ph (including bunny food). It was recommended in your soil report that you add some dolomite or lime. Have you thought about that?

Cindy, thanks for the feedback. "The Intelligent Gardener" sounds very interesting and I've put it on a wish list at Amazon. I also did a search for his fertilizer recipe...that sounds interesting, too. I'm trying...I tend to over research things that I get interested in...maybe too much at times. In regards to the 13-13-13 recommendation, I have no idea about the fertilizing amounts...I'll not add anymore until I get a better grasp of it. Below is the results of the AU calculator using the recommended 120-120-120 pound recommendations with the analysis of alfalfa pellets at 3-.5-3. I'm not sure if I have this figured correctly or not. I studied things a bit and put together a small spreadsheet that came came up with the same results...basically any fertilizer could be used, I guess.

Ed - I don't have sandy soil with a low pH but have silt/clay with a pH of about 7.1. I did the soil test last year using a lab in OH after reading the book. I did the math but also used an online service ($10/yr) which broke it down for me with suggestions. I used stuff like feather meal but also a few sulfated minerals (which also helped with the pH). I didn't do a lab test this year but hope to again next year.

stone said:Your soil "test" report doesn't help.
There are tests that will tell you all the micro nutrients and everything, but still, nothing about the health of the soil.
More and more, its the organic material and the microfaunna that matter.

Yes, picloran is out there, and those terrible neonicitoids... But, chemical fertilizers aren't how I would start.

Personally, I just haul in horse poop and hope for the best.
<snip>
Here's a small section of my sand.

Yeah, the honey bees have been hard hit by the neonicotinoids...the EU banned their use several years ago, but the USA...????...dragging it's feet.

I think the more diverse organic matter you can till into the soil the greater variance in nutrients you will have and the precision of it is no where as critical as it is with using petrochemical fertilizers. Dumping abundant horse manure, adding some leaves or whatnot, and the worms are happy. Looks to me like you have some happy worms in your garden...lots of things happening/growing there!!!!

dyzzypyxxy said:Hi Ed, sounds like you are doing lots of research on how to improve your soil as well as grow your plants.

I use a lot of alfalfa pellets both in my own garden and in the school garden that I am lead volunteer at. I've found that it's best to add the alfalfa as an amendment before planting, because as Daisy points out, it is a good source of slow-release nitrogen as well as feeding the soil microbes and adding wonderful organic materials.

I have a very small garden, and many of my plants at home are in pots. At the school, we have raised beds, but the "good" soil we bought to fill the beds was still a large proportion of sand, which is the native "soil" here. Since we are using the raised beds over and over again, we need to amend with the best possible stuff, and the alfalfa has kept the soil producing well for 5 years now.

At the school, we amend at the beginning of each school year with 25lb. of alfalfa pellets for a 4ft. X 8ft raised bed. Dig it in thoroughly, water thoroughly, and then plant the next week. When we plant new cool-weather crops at the beginning of the new semester in January, we also add alfalfa pellets at about 2 cups per plant, when we're planting transplants. At home, I use about two cupfuls per plant for veggie plants. I put a handful or two in a pot if I am re-potting anything.

All that being said, I would still side-dress your rows with a couple of handfuls of alfalfa pellets now because the small proportion of nitrogen in them won't do all that much to stimulate additional growth, but sure will give the soil microbes a big boost. When you buy the alfalfa, be sure you get 100% alfalfa - horse food in 50lb. bags. Don't buy rabbit food, it has vitamins and other additives and is a LOT more expensive.

Also, cover the pellets as you go along, and water thoroughly after side-dressing to encourage them to break down quickly. We attracted a wild rabbit to our school garden the first time we added them, and had to spend $200 on rabbit fencing to keep him and his family from coming back. Since then we've buried the pellets, watered thoroughly and haven't had any more bunny problems.

Thanks for some great feedback, Elaine. As I mentioned to Cindy, I think I over research things at times. But, I do tend to get the "idea" of things before it's over with...just gotta find that knowledge/information first, though...then let it soak through my thick skull.

Feeding the microbes is what I'd love to get going on, it sounds like the pellets are great worm food! I understand that I need to feed the soil and the soil will feed the plants. And, of course, I need to get other organics in the soil, too, if nothing else but to improve the tilth of the soil. It sounds like you are using a lot more alfalfa pellets than I had figured on. I guess the slow release aspect of them allows you to do so...?? Plus, having your sandy soil down your way probably allows more leaching to happen...???

I hear you on the horse pellets. I'll be sure to look at the ingredients on what I buy to be sure there is no salts, etc.,. Do you use the pellets or the cubes?

Rabbits...gottem around here, but the coyotes have thinned them down a bit. I'll keep that in mind about making sure to bury the pellets as I don't have a rabbit fence around the garden. And, I'm hoping the coyotes don't decide to jump the fence and swipe some melons or maters when they get ripe...coyotes *love* watermelons!!!